MOA直播回顾 | Vol.1 孙原彭禹聊艺术

SUN Yuan: First of all, technology can be a hindrance to the artist, but it won’t be a hindrance to the audience when they appreciate the artwork. Because to the audience, it is satisfying to see new art and new technology regardless. But for the artist, sometimes technology can make the artist “lazy.” The artist may rely too much on the technology. But art is supposed to do things that “exceed” technology. But for the artist, sometimes technology can make the artist “lazy.” The artist may rely too much on the technology. But art is supposed to do things that “exceed” technology. All Shu are developed from Yi. Shu is what people can inherit and carry on. On the other hand, what cannot be inherited and carried on is Yi. So Yi is something above Shu, it needs the artist’s control. So the more advanced the technology is, the more challenging it is to the artist. So when the artist uses advanced technology, it really tests the artist’s ability. It doesn’t mean that the artist is “taking advantage” of technology.

SUN Yuan：I want to say that not everything can be termed as AI, including robots. I think AI should be something that machines cannot imitate. AI is unexplainable and beyond logics. AI is what humans cannot even control. What humans can manipulate through algorithms is called “technology.” What people are calling artificial intelligence is actually artificial “retard.” It utilizes the most basic technology. 

For example, Can’t Help Myself is a robot controlled by 2 things, first it’s controlled by programming, and then the programming is controlled by the liquid’s fluidity. It is the uncertainty of a substance that controls the whole so called AI. In other words, it is not intelligence but retard. Because when humans encounter such a problem, we naturally try our best to get rid of it. Unlike donkeys that churn on mills forever, humans have their own consciousness. The robot here is completely handed down by a naturally flowing object. The liquid is constantly manipulating the robot.

PENG Yu：When we first exhibited the robot arm at Guggenheim, in fact as we were talking about the proposal plans with the museum team, they saw the plan, and asked whether the robot arm will get out of control and catch children from the audience, or break open the windows and hurt the bystanders. Actually Guggenheim’s team is very professional, but they still had these concerns. So we can see that ordinary people like us still feel very unclear about technology, or we still mystify it to a large extent. 

As we were making this work, we already knew how much of it is absolutely in control, that it will never get out of hand. As for those mystified fictional stories, what is the underlying purposes for these stories. That’s something that we should think about. You can’t just believe the stories others tell you. There are many tech conferences and workshops, most of them are still at the stage of making conjectures about technology.

SUN Yuan：Because this work itself is about absurdity. I think it’s ok to think of it as a kind of extension of the work. The work is not meant to be about issues like animal abuse. Quite the opposite, it talks about how to resolve the mutual “abuse” between animals. If they have formed a habit, how would you change it. To make them see things from a different angle. That’s what this work is about. But (some) Americans are rather silly. Although they are kind of cute too. The moment they saw it’s about animals, they were triggered. 

Today, Chinese are more like westerners. There are more things that trigger Chinese people now. For example, if you speak of foreigners, they will advocate for boycotts of foreign products. Everyone will lose their mind over patriotism. I think this work itself also reveals the same problem: what situation triggers you. When two dogs are standing on two running machines, facing each other, they cannot see each other, so they remain sane. As soon as they see each other, the separation board is removed, they will lose their minds and start running towards each other. 

In fact, I think the moment when people lose their minds is very spirited. I also enjoy watching moments like that. When we watch movies, we watch for those moments as well. We call it “acting moments.” If they lose their minds really well, we even give them awards for it. So the Guggenheim exhibition caused 700 to 800 thousand Americans to behave like that. Because the work is about this issue, and it brings out exactly just that. Personally, (this situation) wasn’t unacceptable to me.

SUN Yuan: I think this is an interesting question. First of all, there must be a subject of importance. Who is it important to? Whatever the artist wants to express, you may call it a will, an idea, a concept. It is the artist, to whom such meaning matters the most. No matter what you want to express, first of all the artist has to persuade himself/herself. He or she has to cultivate a motivation, using the most persuasive reason. Then he or she can complete the artistic expression. So what I want to express matters to me first. Whether it matters to you, I don’t know. What matters to the audience is what they saw. It’s totally ok if what they see is different from what the artist intended. 

You can just believe what you see. You can see other things in my works. For example, if you see “love” in Dogs That Cannot Touch Each Other, then it’s great. I think it’s awesome. You have exceeded me. Audience should exceed the creator. The Audience should be more imaginative than the creator. When a science fiction writer wrote something, the readers must be more imaginative than the author. Then this work can achieve perfection.

SUN Yuan: Actually, artists are more childish than ordinary people. Because we have learned many things in life. But the artists need to get rid of those things. For example, we need rules in life to make us feel safe. But artists must forget about these rules. Or they have to break the rules. If you want to break rules while staying safe, you have to know the rules very well, more than other people. Meanwhile, you have to not follow these rules. On some level, this idea is very naïve and childish. Or it’s nuts. Actually all artists are nuts. They think more like children. But only smarter or more sophisticated. That’s how it is. Maybe the people who do not know artists or work in art would mystify and deify artists. But they are not that mysterious. Maybe artists are even simpler. 

孙原：立FLAG这个词挺逗的，因为英文里没有这个词。

SUN Yuan: Well, the word “Plant the Flag” is funny. It’s not a English word.

彭禹：有点像“I服了YOU”。

PENG Yu: It’s like “I Fu Le you.”(meaning “you got me”or “you won”)

孙原：对，它是汉语里的词汇，但用的英文。在汉语里，它表达了我设立一个目标，比如挣一个亿，这是立FLAG。我们都知道这个词的意思，很多人今天也在不停的立FLAG，像比尔盖茨、乔布斯、马斯克，他们都是立FLAG的高手，他们都在不停的许诺某种东西。在我看来，立FLAG不是随便来的，随便立FLAG叫吹牛逼。我们在一个地方插了一个旗子表达一种愿景，那它插在哪里最有号召力，是插在人的身体里。也就是说，在我们设立目标的时候，我们已经把代价摆在人的眼前。这个时候才能对人形成召唤能力。所以我们需要有一面旗帜插在人的身体里，告诉大家这才叫立FLAG。

PENG Yu: There are for sure a lot. Our original plan was first the Moscow exhibition on an international level. And then it’s another one in Chicago, Turin, and then Abu Dhabi in April. Everything after Moscow was cancelled. We didn’t go to Chicago. The tickets we booked was on the day America closed its doors. We even got to the airport and had the boarding pass. I saw the plane was full. Everyone was like fleeing refugees. Museum staff in Chicago told us that we might need to quarantine when get arrive. And we just decided not to go at that point.

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