中间实践 | Yishu写作者修行之路系列采访 #13 - 中间美术馆

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展览“从艺术到Yishu，从Yishu到艺术”（2020.12.19-2021.05.09）已顺利闭幕。在此，我们特别感谢郑胜天、林荫庭、华睿思、白慧怡、田珠莉、康书雅、姚善嘉、林似竹、史楷迪、帕特里夏·艾肯鲍姆·克雷斯基、于渺、乔安妮·伯妮·丹妮克、杜伯贞、顾珠妮、杨天娜、斐丹娜、林白丽、刘千、刁雪、倪嘉、陈佳树、祝天怡、韦淇、三影堂摄影艺术中心对于本项目的支持与帮助。

在今后的两个月里，我们仍将继续发布《Yishu国际典藏版》写作者和编辑的中英文访谈。他们中既有资深的双年展策展人，也有艺术史家和活跃的评论家。我们希望从他们的写作修行之路中汲取灵感和能量，并从中看到艺术出版的生态，以及《Yishu》作为其中一个可贵的案例。

中间实践 | Yishu写作者修行之路系列采访 #13 Yishu 作者之路系列中间 English展览艺术郑胜天林荫华睿思崇真艺客

杨天娜

杨天娜，独⽴艺术史学者，独立策展人。杨氏和当代艺术的渊源始于八十年代中期，当时她撰写了和发表大量相关专论。她是亚洲艺术文献库顾问。她的博⼠论⽂《符号的较量：1979-1989的中国前卫艺术》(香港 timezone8, 2003) 是关于中国80年代艺术的参考著作。

杨天娜策划的展览包括“Leased Legacy. Hong Kong 1997”（法兰克福，1997）、“渗:移景与幻想”（广东美术馆，广州，2006）、“剩余价值”和“积累——广东快车”（当代唐人艺术中心，北京，2006）、“水墨、生活、趣味”第五届深圳国际水墨双年展（深圳，2006）、Onda Anomala第七届Manifesta双年展（特伦托，意大利，2008）、“成为激烈、成为动物、成为......”（海德堡大学，2009），“以退为进”（上海外滩美术馆，2014），“7+1——你们来了就好”（北京CIGE博览会， 2015），Heimat——第⼀届光安⽥田野国际双年展（光安, 2018）, “三魂七魄—杨诘苍”, 上海民⽣生美术馆（上海, 2019）, “交流模式：Aljoscha与田德熙"，AsiaNow（巴黎2020）。

1. 你和《Yishu》的故事是什么？你是什么时候开始为《Yishu》写作的？

我从《Yishu》创刊以来就为它写作，是郑胜天老师邀请我参与到这个项目中来的。

2. 你在《Yishu》中发表过几篇文章？主要写作的内容是什么？

七篇左右吧。在《Yishu》初期，我写得比较频繁，很多是与我的研究兴趣有关的各类主题文章，而不是展览评论。

3. 你为什么会选择《Yishu》平台？你觉得《Yishu》杂志的特点是什么？它有哪些特质是不同于其他杂志的？

有几个原因：一是它是我的专业领域；其次它是一个独立的、非商业性杂志；还有就是它具有开放性，为年轻的研究者和边缘课题提供了发展、发挥空间。

4. 跟《Yishu》杂志编辑部合作沟通的过程是什么样的？

畅通无阻而且专业。

5. 你的研究方向是什么？你最近在研究什么？

在过去的几年里，我策划了几个展览。我的研究领域没有改变，我的兴趣仍然是当代艺术、艺术策略和文化政治的联系。

6. 2002年《Yishu》创刊号向当时的有影响力的艺术实践者提了一系列问题。借第100期出版之际，我们想把这些问题提给你：你怎样看待中国艺术文化现状？中国的艺术和文化对您来说意味着什么？中国的艺术和文化对你来说是什么？“中国”对你来说意味着什么？

“中国”这个词对我来说有多重含义，不同含义皆有所区别。

首先，中国是我丈夫的原籍国，这意味着我在中国有家人。其次，它是一个我众多好友生活的地方，是许多艺术家和艺术从业者生活的地方——在我的整个职业生涯中，我都与他们一起工作。

我年轻时在中国学习了近三年，从1985年到1987年。当时去中国就像去月球一样，它就像整个世界的一颗卫星：既现实又遥远，跟随西方也想要影响潮流，但尚不是世界的积极推动者。中国仍是社会主义阵营（Eastern bloc）的一部分，如此不同的地域。我有幸见证了中国当代艺术最杰出的时刻——所谓的“85新潮”。当时我的经历以及与艺术家的接触使我决定在中国当代艺术领域工作。我深深地被艺术家们强大的能量和意志所感动：他们一无所有，连工作室都没有，但他们能够改变环境，用他们的思想和行为改变中国。

我相信，这种能量仍然存在。中国是最古老的文明之一，它从未失去过生命力。上世纪80年代，作为官方指导思想的乌托邦现代意识形态是文化领域的主要推动力。在这种乌托邦式的追求中，以七八十年代至20世纪末最为典型，中国加入了世界的发展浪潮。发展不仅被视为一种经济因素，还被看作个人和精神上的努力。人们追求的是更好，而不是更多。我不想说得很老套，但我认为，我们需要给这种能量一个机会，给各个领域的艺术家和创造者——无论是文化还是科学领域，一个参与社会转型的机会。政治不能也不应该解决我们当代世界面临的所有问题和挑战。我相信，个人是每一个持续变革的关键因素，而我们需要信任每一个个体，才能强化和实现变革。

7. 你认为目前艺术评论的现状如何？

就像其他所有东西一样，它需要更多的想象，更精准的文字。

8. 借用华思睿在第一百期向写作者进行的提问：“在过去的二十年里，中国当代艺术在艺术生产和运作机制方面有些什么发展/变化？”，请问您对这个问题有什么想法？

有很多重大的变化。这个问题我曾在《Yishu》100期上详细回答过，我归结为以下：郑国谷曾对我说过，在他看来，政治口号是某种咒语，只要我们经常重复，就会变成现实。正是口号改变了现实，随之而来的是经济体制结构、价值体系以及艺术政策的改变。从70年代末的“解放思想”、“改革开放”，到2000年的“三个代表”、2005年的“和谐社会”，再到2008年奥运会的“同一个世界，同一个梦想”，f c pc》，第19卷，第5/6期（2020年）：40-44）。

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往期系列采访：

过往线上对谈回顾：

欢迎关注我们的Youtube频道（Inside-Out Art Museum, Beijing），观看我们的对谈回放

Martina Köppel-Yang

Dr. Martina Köppel-Yang is an independent scholar and curator. She works in the field of contemporary Chinese art since the mid-1980s and has written extensively on the subject. Her PhD thesis Semiotic Warfare-The Chinese Avant-garde 1979-1989, a Semiotic Analysis (Hong Kong: timezone 8, 2003) is a reference book on the Chinese art of the 1980s. She is a member of the advisory board of Asia Art Archive (Hong Kong).

Her exhibitions include, Leased Legacy. Hong Kong 1997 (Frankfurt 1997), Infiltration: Idylls and Visions (Guangdong Museum of Art, Guangzhou 2006), Surplus Value and Accumulation-Canton Express (Tang Contemporary, Beijing, 2006), Ink-Life-Taste of the 5th Shenzhen International Ink Painting Biennale (Shenzhen, 2006), Onda Anomala part of Manifesta 7 (Trento, Italy 2008), and Becoming Intense, Becoming Animal, Becoming ...(Heidelberg University 2009), Advance through Retreat (Rockbund Museum of Art, Shanghai 2014), The Writings of Today are a Promise for Tomorrow-Yangjiang Group (Palazzo Morosini, Venice, 2015), 7+1 Luckily you are here (CIGE, Beijing 2015), Heimat - The First Guang'an international Field Art Biennial (Guang'an, 2018), 3 Souls 7 Spirits - Yang Jiechang, Shanghai Minsheng Museum (Shanghai, 2019), Format Exchange: Aljoscha and Tian Dexi, AsiaNow (Paris, 2020).

1. What is your story with Yishu journal? When did you start writing for Yishu?

I started writing for Yishu from its beginnings on. The connection is Zheng Shengtian Laoshi, who invited me to be part of the project.

2. How many articles have you published in Yishu? What are they about?

Maybe about seven. I was writing more regularly in the early years of Yishu. I wrote about different topics related to my research interests, not exhibition reviews.

3. Why do you choose to write for Yishu? In what ways do you think Yishu distinguishes itself from other art journals? What is particularistic about Yishu?

There are several reasons, why I write for Yishu:

1) it is specialized in my field of research

2) it is an independent, non-commercial journal

3) it is open-minded, gives space to young researchers and marginal topics

4. What is it like to work with Yishu’s editors?

It was smooth and professional.

5. What is your research area? What have you been working on recently?

I have been curating several exhibitions in the last couple of years. My research area did not change: my interest is still the connection of contemporary art, artistic strategies and cultural politics.

6. The inaugural issue of Yishu in 2002 posed a series of questions to prominent art practitioners in Chinese contemporary art. Now that Yishu has arrived at its milestone of 100 issues, we’d like to pose some of these questions to you: What are your thoughts regarding the situation of art and culture in China today? What does Chinese art and culture mean to you? What does “China” mean to you?

Well, "China" means a lot to me, in the different meanings of this expression.

First of all, China is the country of origin of my husband, this means I have family in China. Second, it is the place where many of my dear friends live, where many of the artists and art professionals live, with whom I have worked throughout my career.

I studied in China for nearly three years, when I was very young. This was from 1985 to 1987. At the time, going to China was like going to the moon. It resembled a satellite of world events, present and distant at the same time, following the Western powers, wanting to influence tides, but not yet an active agent of world events. It was a different sphere, still part of the Eastern bloc. I had the luck to witness one of the most outstanding moments in contemporary Chinese art, the 85 New Wave. The experiences I made and the encounters with artists I had at the time triggered my decision to work in the field of contemporary Chinese art. I was deeply touched by the positive energy and determination of the artists: they had nothing, often not even a studio, but they were able to change their environment, to change China with their ideas.

I believe that this kind of energy does still exist. China is one of the oldest civilizations. It has never lost its vitality. In the 1980s, the utopian concept of the modern consciousness, that was an official guideline, was a major drive in the cultural scene. In this utopian quest, typical of the 1970s/1980s and even the end of the twentieth century, China joined the world. Development was regarded not only as an economic factor, but also as an individual and spiritual endeavor. People strived for the better, not for the more. I do not want to sound nostalgic, but I believe that we need to give this kind of energy a chance, to give artists and creatives of all fields, cultural and scientific, a chance to take part in the transformation of society. Politics cannot and should not solve all the problems and challenges our contemporary world is facing. I believe that the individual is the key factor in every sustainable change, and it is the individual we have to trust to enhance and to live change.

7. What are your thoughts regarding the situation of art criticism today?

Like everything else, it needs more fantasy and less words.

8. Keith Wallace has posed a question in the 100th edition of Yishu, and we’d like to pose the same question to you: What are the most significant developments that have taken place in contemporary Chinese art in the past two decades in terms of the art produced and systems it functions within?

There are many significant changes. I answered this question for the 100th edition of Yishu in detail. But I think it comes down to the following:

Zheng Guogu once told me that, for him, political slogans are a kind of mantra, becoming reality if only we repeat them often enough. It is the slogans that have changed and, with them, reality, the structure of the economic and institutional systems, the value system, and, in response, artistic strategies. From "Liberate the Thoughts" and "Reform and Opening Up" in the late 1970s, to "Three Represents" in 2000 and "Harmonious Society" in 2005, the 2008 Olympics’ "One World, One Dream," "Chinese Dream" in 2013 and, finally, "Thoughts on Socialism with Chinese Characteristics in the New Era" in 2017, it is a long list of slogans, which the artists answered by developing individual artistic strategies responding or counteracting the new directives and the "utopian strain" (quote from my text "Who the Hell is Ielnay Oahgnoh?", in: Yishu Vol 19:5/6, 2020: pp. 40-44).

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Past Interview Series:

#7: Patricia Eichenbaum Karetzky

#8: Mia Yu

#9: Jo-Anne Birnie-Danzker

#10: Carol Yinghua Lu